I was thinking of buying a kfx450r but some people I have talked to have said stay away from the 450s. I do mostly trail riding and the guy at a dealership said a 400 would be better because "the 450s in general are a maintenance nightmare" this has kind of got me second guessing this quad so I wanted to know does the kfx450r need alot of maitenance and what is involved. I can handle changing the oil, lubing the chain, cleaning airfilters, general maintenance but I dont want to be sinking money into having a dealer maintain this quad.
NHRider
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141 Posts
NHrider,
You can read my reply and call an end to this thing... if you will trust me... because I will not point you in the wrong direction.
The local guys are not really lying to you. Their experience with 450's is genuine. But understand they are NOT sharing their experience with you about the KFX450R. It is very much true that the Honda, Yamaha, Can-Am, Polaris and KTM 450's have required a LOT of maintenance, and SHORT engine life.
The KFX450R is not like this though if you take care of it. It's pretty much the polar opposite of the others. It lives a very long life and has without question the best mechanical life on internal engine parts. It's weak point is the electrical stuff associated with the EFI.
And if something electrical goes wrong it's a lot more complicated to deal with. But rest assured I've been through a lot in this department and can help you figure out anything you need to on the electrical/EFI stuff. And from where I am sitting now, I would much rather have learned that than how to rebuild motors frequently.
If you are going to trail ride a sport ATV, the KFX, Polaris & KTM are the clear choices because they have reverse. I liked the KFX most overall.
If all you are going to do is ride trails, all you "need" is a 400 or a stock KFX. The LTZ/KFX/DVX400 is going to be easier to ride and have a softer seat. Some of those years had weak frames though, so google that. The 400EX is even easier, but is last on the list in performance too.
It really all depends on what kind of trails you ride and who you ride with... as to what is a better choice.
For me, I find the 400's to be the better choice for the tight technical stuff, and the slow riders and slow machines I ride with sometimes. The 400EX is really good at going slow and the KFX is not so much... It's tough sometimes.
On the other hand though, I was really bored with the 400EX fast, and mods didn't cure that. But then I rode 250R's and stuff back in the day. So the 450's are a good cure for boredom of the thumb.
In the end I probably could have swapped my 400EX for an LTZ/KFX/DVX 400 and modded to happiness or gotten a 700R and spent the mod money on suspension... and been about as happy as I am now with the 450... and maybe happier on the trails.
You can read my reply and call an end to this thing... if you will trust me... because I will not point you in the wrong direction.
The local guys are not really lying to you. Their experience with 450's is genuine. But understand they are NOT sharing their experience with you about the KFX450R. It is very much true that the Honda, Yamaha, Can-Am, Polaris and KTM 450's have required a LOT of maintenance, and SHORT engine life.
The KFX450R is not like this though if you take care of it. It's pretty much the polar opposite of the others. It lives a very long life and has without question the best mechanical life on internal engine parts. It's weak point is the electrical stuff associated with the EFI.
And if something electrical goes wrong it's a lot more complicated to deal with. But rest assured I've been through a lot in this department and can help you figure out anything you need to on the electrical/EFI stuff. And from where I am sitting now, I would much rather have learned that than how to rebuild motors frequently.
If you are going to trail ride a sport ATV, the KFX, Polaris & KTM are the clear choices because they have reverse. I liked the KFX most overall.
If all you are going to do is ride trails, all you "need" is a 400 or a stock KFX. The LTZ/KFX/DVX400 is going to be easier to ride and have a softer seat. Some of those years had weak frames though, so google that. The 400EX is even easier, but is last on the list in performance too.
It really all depends on what kind of trails you ride and who you ride with... as to what is a better choice.
For me, I find the 400's to be the better choice for the tight technical stuff, and the slow riders and slow machines I ride with sometimes. The 400EX is really good at going slow and the KFX is not so much... It's tough sometimes.
On the other hand though, I was really bored with the 400EX fast, and mods didn't cure that. But then I rode 250R's and stuff back in the day. So the 450's are a good cure for boredom of the thumb.
In the end I probably could have swapped my 400EX for an LTZ/KFX/DVX 400 and modded to happiness or gotten a 700R and spent the mod money on suspension... and been about as happy as I am now with the 450... and maybe happier on the trails.
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141 Posts
For open riding, the 450's are the clear choice.
I even like them in the twisty woods. It's just that I ride in the mountains a lot and the tight steep terrain cam be a bit of work, especially when you end up following a 4x4 in some place where you don't know where you are going.
I even like them in the twisty woods. It's just that I ride in the mountains a lot and the tight steep terrain cam be a bit of work, especially when you end up following a 4x4 in some place where you don't know where you are going.
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141 Posts
Well, you are talking directly to the guy who has had the most KFX450R troubles, and also the one who has had the most trail complaints.... as far as the guys in the online communities...
Trailing first...
I ride some of the hardest places to take a 450... tight mountain 4x4 trails... often held up by slow 4x4 riders and such. What you run won't be an issue I don't think. I think you will be trail happy on a 450 so long as you are carrying speed where you ride.
450's have extremely light rotating mass for internals and high internal trans gears, so they light fast without killing you... but they stall out just as quickly as a result. This is why the bike riders use flywheel weights. Anything easier to get moving is also easier to stop, so stuff like a 400EX has way less power and torque but is a lot harder to stall due to the increased weight of the rotational mass.
With the same final gearing, taking off on my KFX is about the same effort as taking off on my EX in 3rd gear. But this is a non-issue for the trails you will ride the way you describe it.
I've only had the most trail complaints because I ride it in a lot of tight, steep, rough wooded mountains, where it is hard to carry any speed, and often following riders and machines that don't carry any speed.
The 400EX is naturally better for that due to a heavier piston, rod, crank, flywheel... and setting the decimal point ratios aside, the trans gearing ratios... (teeth)
Machine....450R.....400EX
Primary.....62/21....65/23
1st..........29/13....35/12
Chain.......14/38....14/38 (down 1 tooth from stock on EX)
Nothing to do with power, but everything to do with physics, as my 450 has more torque than my EX has HP.
Trailing first...
I ride some of the hardest places to take a 450... tight mountain 4x4 trails... often held up by slow 4x4 riders and such. What you run won't be an issue I don't think. I think you will be trail happy on a 450 so long as you are carrying speed where you ride.
450's have extremely light rotating mass for internals and high internal trans gears, so they light fast without killing you... but they stall out just as quickly as a result. This is why the bike riders use flywheel weights. Anything easier to get moving is also easier to stop, so stuff like a 400EX has way less power and torque but is a lot harder to stall due to the increased weight of the rotational mass.
With the same final gearing, taking off on my KFX is about the same effort as taking off on my EX in 3rd gear. But this is a non-issue for the trails you will ride the way you describe it.
I've only had the most trail complaints because I ride it in a lot of tight, steep, rough wooded mountains, where it is hard to carry any speed, and often following riders and machines that don't carry any speed.
The 400EX is naturally better for that due to a heavier piston, rod, crank, flywheel... and setting the decimal point ratios aside, the trans gearing ratios... (teeth)
Machine....450R.....400EX
Primary.....62/21....65/23
1st..........29/13....35/12
Chain.......14/38....14/38 (down 1 tooth from stock on EX)
Nothing to do with power, but everything to do with physics, as my 450 has more torque than my EX has HP.
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141 Posts
Problems
And I've had the most bad luck with KFX450R problems as well.
And I generally do not take such stuff very well.
I have had a lot of electrical and EFI related issues. I mean I was pretty much plagued with them. I mean I was pretty close to dropping a match in the gas tank... cause I like simple and these things can be so complicated the Kawi dealer can't even figure it out. It's got an ECU, a crapload of wires, some switches, sensors and relays, etc...
This was my case... dealers couldn't help... and I knew less than nothing about electrical stuff or EFI stuff. But I picked up a wiring diagram and sat in front of a computer, learning stuff one thing at a time. Learned it inside out, and was able to pretty simply fix all my problems.
My most severe problem was the actual ECU was bad on mine... which I proved to the dealer in time, but Kawi wouldn't authorize the warranty claim and send the part although it was still well under warranty.
So I just took the wad of cash I had set aside for purchasing the extended warranty, took $300 out of it and bought an aftermarket ECU... And I am actually glad it turned out this way... because it is a much hotter package now than it ever would have been if I had taken the common and planned road... Power Commander and Dynatek parts to handle the fuel and ignition tuning... I've got a lot better setup at a way lower investment.... So Kawi did me a favor there.
Anyways, wires, sensors, switches, etc... the more of them you have, the more fault points you have... for something to go wrong and the harder glitches are to find... that's just the way it is. And all of them will have this stuff eventually... most do already. And it will get better in time as well.
This is really no different than the progression of cars from carbs to EFI.
More complicated... yes... but there are no other negative marks.
And me, I would also rather tape a wire, change a fuse, swap a relay... or whatever... than have to deal with mechanical stuff like engine rebuilds, transmission repairs, etc...
I've done nothing mechanical to my machine yet... not even a valve adjustment.
I can't say the same for my 400's...
Had to split the cases on the one to do the water pump... and rebuild the carb... which still leaks.
And on the other I have rebuilt the carb and almost pulled my hair out getting it dialed in correctly.
And this engine will have to come down this winter for cylinder and head work, and bottom end inspection.
In my opinion it has a longer service life between rebuilds than the 400EX, and is every bit as mechanically reliable as the 400's in general. I expect it to have about the same or better service life than the Z400 and it's cousins. I just have to do a lot more oil changes, as it is way harder on oil.
I was having to change oil every ride, but found an oil that is tougher to reduce that way back.
And I've had the most bad luck with KFX450R problems as well.
And I generally do not take such stuff very well.
I have had a lot of electrical and EFI related issues. I mean I was pretty much plagued with them. I mean I was pretty close to dropping a match in the gas tank... cause I like simple and these things can be so complicated the Kawi dealer can't even figure it out. It's got an ECU, a crapload of wires, some switches, sensors and relays, etc...
This was my case... dealers couldn't help... and I knew less than nothing about electrical stuff or EFI stuff. But I picked up a wiring diagram and sat in front of a computer, learning stuff one thing at a time. Learned it inside out, and was able to pretty simply fix all my problems.
My most severe problem was the actual ECU was bad on mine... which I proved to the dealer in time, but Kawi wouldn't authorize the warranty claim and send the part although it was still well under warranty.
So I just took the wad of cash I had set aside for purchasing the extended warranty, took $300 out of it and bought an aftermarket ECU... And I am actually glad it turned out this way... because it is a much hotter package now than it ever would have been if I had taken the common and planned road... Power Commander and Dynatek parts to handle the fuel and ignition tuning... I've got a lot better setup at a way lower investment.... So Kawi did me a favor there.
Anyways, wires, sensors, switches, etc... the more of them you have, the more fault points you have... for something to go wrong and the harder glitches are to find... that's just the way it is. And all of them will have this stuff eventually... most do already. And it will get better in time as well.
This is really no different than the progression of cars from carbs to EFI.
More complicated... yes... but there are no other negative marks.
And me, I would also rather tape a wire, change a fuse, swap a relay... or whatever... than have to deal with mechanical stuff like engine rebuilds, transmission repairs, etc...
I've done nothing mechanical to my machine yet... not even a valve adjustment.
I can't say the same for my 400's...
Had to split the cases on the one to do the water pump... and rebuild the carb... which still leaks.
And on the other I have rebuilt the carb and almost pulled my hair out getting it dialed in correctly.
And this engine will have to come down this winter for cylinder and head work, and bottom end inspection.
In my opinion it has a longer service life between rebuilds than the 400EX, and is every bit as mechanically reliable as the 400's in general. I expect it to have about the same or better service life than the Z400 and it's cousins. I just have to do a lot more oil changes, as it is way harder on oil.
I was having to change oil every ride, but found an oil that is tougher to reduce that way back.
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141 Posts
Now some guys have had zero electrical problems and 100% good experience.
But if you buy a used one, I'd say the chances are high that you are buying a buggy trade-in. But I can guide you through any troubles.
My advice for good KFX450R service is...
Download factory service manual from internet (free)
Buy 2 multimeters, 1 digital autoranging, 1 analog
($45 for both at Sears or Walmart)
Unhook every connector and put in dielectric grease.
Buy the throttle sensor setting adapter and hook it up inline
Use digital multimeter to check TPS periodically
Never install higher rated fuse in place of a blown fuse... find the problem
Exercise common sense if you use pressure washers
Use very robust synthetic oil... change when it looks dirty in sight glass
(15w50 Mobil 1 in summer, 10w40 Mobil 1 motorcycle in winter... or Amsoil equivalent)
Service air filter religiously when needed.
Don't use K&N filters unless covered with outerwear and used in desert (large particulates)
Disassemble and grease suspension pivot points periodically
Don't install fancy lightweight sprockets ever
Check chain slack and sprocket bolts regularly
Buy a Moose Poly case saver in case anything ever goes wrong with the chain
Put good skids under the aluminum frame
Remember this EFI system has no ability to adjust for mods
But if you buy a used one, I'd say the chances are high that you are buying a buggy trade-in. But I can guide you through any troubles.
My advice for good KFX450R service is...
Download factory service manual from internet (free)
Buy 2 multimeters, 1 digital autoranging, 1 analog
($45 for both at Sears or Walmart)
Unhook every connector and put in dielectric grease.
Buy the throttle sensor setting adapter and hook it up inline
Use digital multimeter to check TPS periodically
Never install higher rated fuse in place of a blown fuse... find the problem
Exercise common sense if you use pressure washers
Use very robust synthetic oil... change when it looks dirty in sight glass
(15w50 Mobil 1 in summer, 10w40 Mobil 1 motorcycle in winter... or Amsoil equivalent)
Service air filter religiously when needed.
Don't use K&N filters unless covered with outerwear and used in desert (large particulates)
Disassemble and grease suspension pivot points periodically
Don't install fancy lightweight sprockets ever
Check chain slack and sprocket bolts regularly
Buy a Moose Poly case saver in case anything ever goes wrong with the chain
Put good skids under the aluminum frame
Remember this EFI system has no ability to adjust for mods
Joined
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141 Posts
A lot of guys just take this stuff apart when they get a machine home, even new. Some claim the factory doesn't put enough in the pivots and rear axle carrier. I haven't bothered with it myself. Over the winter probably wouldn't hurt in my opinion.
Some dealers can help you with these... most can't.
Mine couldn't help me although they tried very hard.
So I learned how to help myself.
I can help you with most anything you run into.
Electrical stuff has a reputation of hiding, and then showing up later at random.
Don't worry... save your money... and just ask me if something pops up.
I'll teach you how to find and fix problems if you have any.
(I know what it was like to be on my own with it)
After having it a while, put a full system on it like I have.
They are big bucks direct, but I can show you where to get one for $365.
The stock titanium header is a nice buzz word for sales... but it cracks. So for a few more dollars than a slip on you can avoid that replacement cost down the road... cause you'll have to buy another stocker to keep using your slip on... So for a few dollars more you avoid that and gain the performance of a full exhaust.
Certainly don't take your KFX to that dealer's shop. They are clueless. The KFX does not have any ability to self-adjust for mods. It has no o2 sensor, or mass air sensor. In stock form all it can do is try to compensate for air temp (inlet air temp sensor) and altitude (inlet air pressure sensor).
Most people have been able to add an exhaust system without any problems though. But not because the KFX can adjust... but because the stock mapping is RICH in most cases.
So an exhaust without a programmer just brings the air/fuel ratio closer to spot on.
I would not buy a programmer for a while until you see how good everything is... which means you won't be able to change intakes... but you won't need the programmer until then anyways.
Joined
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141 Posts
If you still have it I can help you figure out what is really wrong with it.
Despite all the hype and arguing and so forth, if you run all of the 450's back to back on the same dyno, they are all within 2 hp of each other stock. And if you run the same units on the same dyno the next day, again they will all run within 2 hp of each other, but they may swap up on bragging order. Same goes if you look at a dyno of a different set of units.
Point being they are all very close when running correctly... and the dynos are really not accurate enough down to that degree to give a definite answer which one has more power.
Out in the real world riding with buddies and such though, it is really hard to find an LTR that doesn't at least have the intake & exhaust opened and a cherry bomb installed... cause the investment is what... a few minutes and $40 for a big gain over stock... like 7hp or something...
That's really hard to compete with on the KFX with it's short stock gearing and all.
You have to do a sprocket gearing change and some mods also to keep up with an LTR.
Despite all the hype and arguing and so forth, if you run all of the 450's back to back on the same dyno, they are all within 2 hp of each other stock. And if you run the same units on the same dyno the next day, again they will all run within 2 hp of each other, but they may swap up on bragging order. Same goes if you look at a dyno of a different set of units.
Point being they are all very close when running correctly... and the dynos are really not accurate enough down to that degree to give a definite answer which one has more power.
Out in the real world riding with buddies and such though, it is really hard to find an LTR that doesn't at least have the intake & exhaust opened and a cherry bomb installed... cause the investment is what... a few minutes and $40 for a big gain over stock... like 7hp or something...
That's really hard to compete with on the KFX with it's short stock gearing and all.
You have to do a sprocket gearing change and some mods also to keep up with an LTR.
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141 Posts
Right... I love the LTR and if they made an XC version with reverse I'd be on one.
Before new quad prices started taking a nose dive, I actually committed to buy a new LTR. At the time the Suzuki dealer with a bunch of stock folded... and their dealership + inventory was transferred down the street.
I had a chance to buy one new for $4799, which AT THE TIME was a steal. So I was willing to give up the reverse for that... and spend some of the savings narrowing it. Filled out the paperwork close to 5pm... then had to plan to return at lunch the next day to finalize everything... which I did.
Long story short, the sales MGR sold it out from under me and his sales person about an hour prior. A year or so later a guy bought a place for sale 4 houses down from me, and we were talking and it turns out he's the one who ended up with my LTR. Small world.
It's an awesome machine... sick on logging roads, fire roads, etc... But he won't go with me back in the woods anymore. He has a hard time keeping up with the width, and got tired of getting hung up and having to get off and push it back.
49" is a nice width, but it gets really wide back in the tight woods.
It's great otherwise.
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141 Posts
Yep... that's how I perceive it also.
But I have been around a long time, and maybe you have too. It's almost an updated aluminum copy of the old Roll Lobo 250R chassis.... the subframe angle is just steeper.
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141 Posts
None of them aluminum sprockets or supposed to last for ever steel sprockets or such nonsense.
Standard Renthal would be fine.
Trying to shave an ounce or make it last forever just isn't wise for this application.
Tell the guy you heard the extended warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on, and offer him $3,000 or less... LOL...
Standard Renthal would be fine.
Trying to shave an ounce or make it last forever just isn't wise for this application.
Tell the guy you heard the extended warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on, and offer him $3,000 or less... LOL...
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