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kfx450r a "maitenance nightmare"

68K views 36 replies 8 participants last post by  aadconstruction81  
#1 ·
I was thinking of buying a kfx450r but some people I have talked to have said stay away from the 450s. I do mostly trail riding and the guy at a dealership said a 400 would be better because "the 450s in general are a maintenance nightmare" this has kind of got me second guessing this quad so I wanted to know does the kfx450r need alot of maitenance and what is involved. I can handle changing the oil, lubing the chain, cleaning airfilters, general maintenance but I dont want to be sinking money into having a dealer maintain this quad.
 
#2 ·
I duuno who or why someone would tell you it's a "maintenance Nightmare". I have 3 quads and the 450 does not require any more maintenance than the other two. In fact...I have had less trouble with the 450 than the 400 I have, due mostly to the fuel injection vs a carb. I have rode the piss out of the 450 for 2 years, and still going strong. There are just a couple of things you need to do right off the get go like using dielectric grease on ALL electrical connections, and getting your TPS adjusted correctly. After that the KFX 450 is a sweet quad, and with a few bolt on mods it really comes alive.
 
#3 ·
I wasn't really sure if the guy was right because it was the first opinion I got. But he mentioned that he had other 450's and he said he spent more money maintaining them then on aftermarket parts. He also said that you need to change pistons 25-50 hours depending on how you ride and that kind of got me a little hesitant. So I told him that I would only be riding it on the trails no racing and he said because the 450s are for racing the engines require ALOT of maitenance and parts. Im not mechanical enough to change pistons and stuff like that so do you know how often you have changed your piston or have you ever had to.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Change the piston in 20 to 50 hours??? NOT!!! I have well over 250 hours on my 450 with out ever having to crack into the case for anything, not even the clutch. My quad is stock interanlly except for the cams. Maybe if you were running a high compression piston in a full race motor, and were full on racing it every weekend...MAYBE you would need to replace the piston in around 50 hours
I ride dunes and trails, never even been in the grandstands at a track. I would say the 450's make up 50% of the quad I see on the trail. Who ever you talked to at the stealership is a crack head.:rolleyes:
The KFX 450 was designed as a track bike, but that doesn't mean it HAS to be riden on a track. Honestly I don't know why anyone, especially a salesman would try and talk you out of the 450, and into a 400 unless they had a 400 (that Kawie quit selling 3 years ago) they were trying to unload.
 
#6 ·
The 2 quads are completely different animals. If you want easy...then get the 400. It's easy to ride and a bit more cush than the 450. If you like to ride hard and haul ass the go with the 450. You can some DIY bolt on mods that will turn it into a beast. Not saying you can't mod the 400, but to get it to the level of a 450 with mods, would mean building the motor. What ever you want I guess, but my 400 is a buddy bike (for my buddies that dont have thier own to ride). I like my 450
 
#7 ·
I really want to go with the 450 but still im hesitant. I just recently called some service department to tell me their honest opinion because they arent going to try and sell me anything. However im more confused then ever because some say just dont beat on the 450 and you shouldnt have any trouble but other guys say that if you get a 450 you will have to be meticulous with the maitenance or else it may cause problems and the MOTOR WILL BLOW!!!???? I don't know if that is right but why would they lie to me about that. Ive called about 9 places and 5 are saying stay away from the 450 and 4 are saying there is no problem with them. I dont know why there would be so many different views. Like you said I see alot of 450s on the trail so maybe I will keep asking.
 
#8 ·
first of all if you buy a new kawi they come with a 1year warrenty!so if you did ride the **** out of it during that time frame if somethin major let go youd be fine!as said above ive had mine for almost two years and have done the big three along with full suspension cams/dyno tuned and the bike rips no issues once so ever!now if your planning on getting a 450 and not planning on keeping up w/oil changes/cleaning your air filter then your gonna be in trouble!these kawis actually reccomend an oil change every 10hrs!normal things will ware!skid plates/chains/brakes/bearings/bushings/tires/rims etc!just depends how you ride take care of your ride and itll take care of you!personally if i was getting a 1st quad again i woulda went straight to the 450!and also i ride about 75percent trails!
 
#9 ·
I plan on buying used because I dont have the money to buy new so it won't have any warranty. On my quad now I do the oil, chain and airfilters regulary. I like to keep them running and looking nice but like I said before I don't want to have this so called "race engine" and have to tear into the motor for different things (simply because I dont know how). I want a bike that rips on trails but if what some of these service departments are telling me is true then why take the chance and end up sinking tons of money into maintaining the thing. It seems like you agree with ayovan about the amount of maitenence? and if/when I get this quad I can do normal maitenance but maybe a little more often and it should be fine?
 
#27 ·
I loved riding my kfx 450. But it's waaay slower than any other 450 and after 3 years of constantly fixing electrical gremlins and buying expensive parts that wouldn't fix my problems I gave up on it. I would say don't buy a used one!!! I had to use my warranty all the way till it expired. Maybe I bought a lemon first year, that's jmo. If I could go back in time I would have bought the ltr 450
 
#12 ·
Why are you so hung up on this? If you have the basic skills to change your oil, clean your air filter, and lube your chain, you should not have any problems with either a 400 or a 450. I mean, yes....you need to check a few more things, like making sure all the nuts, bolts and screws are tight before each time you take it out, but its all basic maintanence for both bikes. You have gotten the opinions from riders who either have both, or had both bikes, and so far eveyone has told you that they like thier 450's better. Like I said before, I have had to mess with the carb on the 400 a number of times (pull it ,disassemble and clean it) vs never having to do anything to the EFI on the 450. Other than that the maintanence on both bikes has been exactlly the same. Both quads are great machines. I just preffer the 450 to the 400 hands down. When you make up your mind, you'll be happy either way.
 
#13 ·
ya ya I know im kindin freaken out about this whole thing but I just dont want to spend 4 or 5 thousand on a bike that ends up to be a problem then have to turn around and sell it. There is just one guy that I remember talking to that raced for like 20 years and knows his stuff and he said i guarantee you will spend a thousand dollars on parts the first year. Everytime I read what you guys are saying then I think well they have the bike and they are saying its fine so what could be the problem but then later I always think about the otherside. But after what you are saying I think I will go with the 450 and if your wrong I will tell you in a year haha.
 
#14 ·
It is when you start messing around with the enjin that some 450's are not reliable. If you do the same with the 400 the result will be the same. Had a Arctic Cat 400 with a 450 big bore kit on had no problems. Currently I ride a KFX 450 also no problems. Nice for outrides and trails and not to heavy like other 450's, Only 450 together with the KTM that has a reverse. Also experienced no more maintanace than on the 400.
 
#15 ·
NHrider,

You can read my reply and call an end to this thing... if you will trust me... because I will not point you in the wrong direction.

The local guys are not really lying to you. Their experience with 450's is genuine. But understand they are NOT sharing their experience with you about the KFX450R. It is very much true that the Honda, Yamaha, Can-Am, Polaris and KTM 450's have required a LOT of maintenance, and SHORT engine life.

The KFX450R is not like this though if you take care of it. It's pretty much the polar opposite of the others. It lives a very long life and has without question the best mechanical life on internal engine parts. It's weak point is the electrical stuff associated with the EFI.

And if something electrical goes wrong it's a lot more complicated to deal with. But rest assured I've been through a lot in this department and can help you figure out anything you need to on the electrical/EFI stuff. And from where I am sitting now, I would much rather have learned that than how to rebuild motors frequently.

If you are going to trail ride a sport ATV, the KFX, Polaris & KTM are the clear choices because they have reverse. I liked the KFX most overall.

If all you are going to do is ride trails, all you "need" is a 400 or a stock KFX. The LTZ/KFX/DVX400 is going to be easier to ride and have a softer seat. Some of those years had weak frames though, so google that. The 400EX is even easier, but is last on the list in performance too.

It really all depends on what kind of trails you ride and who you ride with... as to what is a better choice.

For me, I find the 400's to be the better choice for the tight technical stuff, and the slow riders and slow machines I ride with sometimes. The 400EX is really good at going slow and the KFX is not so much... It's tough sometimes.

On the other hand though, I was really bored with the 400EX fast, and mods didn't cure that. But then I rode 250R's and stuff back in the day. So the 450's are a good cure for boredom of the thumb.

In the end I probably could have swapped my 400EX for an LTZ/KFX/DVX 400 and modded to happiness or gotten a 700R and spent the mod money on suspension... and been about as happy as I am now with the 450... and maybe happier on the trails.
 
#16 ·
At very first I thought that I would go with a 450 but then I thought none of them had reverse so I began looking into the 400. Then I read that polaris and kawasaki had reverse, so I went back to the 450. I dont think that I would be unhappy with the 400 but like you said I dont want to get bored with it. The trails I ride are open fast trails with some technical stuff in it. I also ride at the local sand pits, and in the winter I ride on frozen lakes. The trails I think that the 400 would be fine. But when I ride the frozen lakes and sand pits I think I might want the 450.
 
#17 ·
For open riding, the 450's are the clear choice.

I even like them in the twisty woods. It's just that I ride in the mountains a lot and the tight steep terrain cam be a bit of work, especially when you end up following a 4x4 in some place where you don't know where you are going.
 
#18 ·
I have really wanted a 450 but like I said the only thing that was keeping me from buying one is the people that said that 450s are horrible for trails and horrible to maintain (one guy said that the kawasakis are the worst). But every one that has replied has said its not a problem so I am 90% sure I will go with the 450. But if someone else has had any problems with there kfx450r can you tell me.
 
#19 ·
Well, you are talking directly to the guy who has had the most KFX450R troubles, and also the one who has had the most trail complaints.... as far as the guys in the online communities...

Trailing first...

I ride some of the hardest places to take a 450... tight mountain 4x4 trails... often held up by slow 4x4 riders and such. What you run won't be an issue I don't think. I think you will be trail happy on a 450 so long as you are carrying speed where you ride.

450's have extremely light rotating mass for internals and high internal trans gears, so they light fast without killing you... but they stall out just as quickly as a result. This is why the bike riders use flywheel weights. Anything easier to get moving is also easier to stop, so stuff like a 400EX has way less power and torque but is a lot harder to stall due to the increased weight of the rotational mass.

With the same final gearing, taking off on my KFX is about the same effort as taking off on my EX in 3rd gear. But this is a non-issue for the trails you will ride the way you describe it.

I've only had the most trail complaints because I ride it in a lot of tight, steep, rough wooded mountains, where it is hard to carry any speed, and often following riders and machines that don't carry any speed.

The 400EX is naturally better for that due to a heavier piston, rod, crank, flywheel... and setting the decimal point ratios aside, the trans gearing ratios... (teeth)

Machine....450R.....400EX
Primary.....62/21....65/23
1st..........29/13....35/12
Chain.......14/38....14/38 (down 1 tooth from stock on EX)

Nothing to do with power, but everything to do with physics, as my 450 has more torque than my EX has HP.
 
#20 ·
Problems

And I've had the most bad luck with KFX450R problems as well.
And I generally do not take such stuff very well.

I have had a lot of electrical and EFI related issues. I mean I was pretty much plagued with them. I mean I was pretty close to dropping a match in the gas tank... cause I like simple and these things can be so complicated the Kawi dealer can't even figure it out. It's got an ECU, a crapload of wires, some switches, sensors and relays, etc...

This was my case... dealers couldn't help... and I knew less than nothing about electrical stuff or EFI stuff. But I picked up a wiring diagram and sat in front of a computer, learning stuff one thing at a time. Learned it inside out, and was able to pretty simply fix all my problems.

My most severe problem was the actual ECU was bad on mine... which I proved to the dealer in time, but Kawi wouldn't authorize the warranty claim and send the part although it was still well under warranty.

So I just took the wad of cash I had set aside for purchasing the extended warranty, took $300 out of it and bought an aftermarket ECU... And I am actually glad it turned out this way... because it is a much hotter package now than it ever would have been if I had taken the common and planned road... Power Commander and Dynatek parts to handle the fuel and ignition tuning... I've got a lot better setup at a way lower investment.... So Kawi did me a favor there.

Anyways, wires, sensors, switches, etc... the more of them you have, the more fault points you have... for something to go wrong and the harder glitches are to find... that's just the way it is. And all of them will have this stuff eventually... most do already. And it will get better in time as well.

This is really no different than the progression of cars from carbs to EFI.
More complicated... yes... but there are no other negative marks.

And me, I would also rather tape a wire, change a fuse, swap a relay... or whatever... than have to deal with mechanical stuff like engine rebuilds, transmission repairs, etc...

I've done nothing mechanical to my machine yet... not even a valve adjustment.

I can't say the same for my 400's...
Had to split the cases on the one to do the water pump... and rebuild the carb... which still leaks.
And on the other I have rebuilt the carb and almost pulled my hair out getting it dialed in correctly.
And this engine will have to come down this winter for cylinder and head work, and bottom end inspection.

In my opinion it has a longer service life between rebuilds than the 400EX, and is every bit as mechanically reliable as the 400's in general. I expect it to have about the same or better service life than the Z400 and it's cousins. I just have to do a lot more oil changes, as it is way harder on oil.

I was having to change oil every ride, but found an oil that is tougher to reduce that way back.
 
#21 ·
Now some guys have had zero electrical problems and 100% good experience.

But if you buy a used one, I'd say the chances are high that you are buying a buggy trade-in. But I can guide you through any troubles.

My advice for good KFX450R service is...

Download factory service manual from internet (free)
Buy 2 multimeters, 1 digital autoranging, 1 analog
($45 for both at Sears or Walmart)
Unhook every connector and put in dielectric grease.
Buy the throttle sensor setting adapter and hook it up inline
Use digital multimeter to check TPS periodically
Never install higher rated fuse in place of a blown fuse... find the problem
Exercise common sense if you use pressure washers

Use very robust synthetic oil... change when it looks dirty in sight glass
(15w50 Mobil 1 in summer, 10w40 Mobil 1 motorcycle in winter... or Amsoil equivalent)
Service air filter religiously when needed.
Don't use K&N filters unless covered with outerwear and used in desert (large particulates)
Disassemble and grease suspension pivot points periodically
Don't install fancy lightweight sprockets ever
Check chain slack and sprocket bolts regularly
Buy a Moose Poly case saver in case anything ever goes wrong with the chain
Put good skids under the aluminum frame

Remember this EFI system has no ability to adjust for mods
 
#33 ·
Now some guys have had zero electrical problems and 100% good experience.

But if you buy a used one, I'd say the chances are high that you are buying a buggy trade-in. But I can guide you through any troubles.

My advice for good KFX450R service is...

Download factory service manual from internet (free)
Buy 2 multimeters, 1 digital autoranging, 1 analog
($45 for both at Sears or Walmart)
Unhook every connector and put in dielectric grease.
Buy the throttle sensor setting adapter and hook it up inline
Use digital multimeter to check TPS periodically
Never install higher rated fuse in place of a blown fuse... find the problem
Exercise common sense if you use pressure washers

Use very robust synthetic oil... change when it looks dirty in sight glass
(15w50 Mobil 1 in summer, 10w40 Mobil 1 motorcycle in winter... or Amsoil equivalent)
Service air filter religiously when needed.
Don't use K&N filters unless covered with outerwear and used in desert (large particulates)
Disassemble and grease suspension pivot points periodically
Don't install fancy lightweight sprockets ever
Check chain slack and sprocket bolts regularly
Buy a Moose Poly case saver in case anything ever goes wrong with the chain
Put good skids under the aluminum frame

Remember this EFI system has no ability to adjust for mods
Duster you said dont install lightweight sprockets, but the one I am looking at has renthal sprockets front and rear. Is that a problem?

Also I wanted people to tell me whether this is a good deal

2008 kfx450r for $3600
With:
Renthal nerf bars
Renthal sprockets front and rear
DG skid plate
Renthal fatbars
ITP rear tires and rims(40% tread on rear tires)
Also matching helmet and riding jersey
Low hours and a 4 year transferable warranty
 
#22 ·
Thanks duster you have been alot of help. But when you say "Disassemble and grease suspension pivot points periodically" how often do you mean .. once a year?, every ride? And also when I buy the used one (hopefully soon) im going to bring it to a dealer, so I assume they can tell me if it has any electrical problems right? After having it for some time I plan on putting on an aftermarket exhaust (slip on or full system... just not sure yet) but if I do then do I need some sort of programmer because I mentioned it to a kawasaki dealer and they said that the EFI would adjust. They said only if you seriously mod it then it would be needed. What would happen if I put on an exhaust without a programmer?
 
#23 ·
A lot of guys just take this stuff apart when they get a machine home, even new. Some claim the factory doesn't put enough in the pivots and rear axle carrier. I haven't bothered with it myself. Over the winter probably wouldn't hurt in my opinion.

Some dealers can help you with these... most can't.
Mine couldn't help me although they tried very hard.
So I learned how to help myself.

I can help you with most anything you run into.
Electrical stuff has a reputation of hiding, and then showing up later at random.
Don't worry... save your money... and just ask me if something pops up.
I'll teach you how to find and fix problems if you have any.
(I know what it was like to be on my own with it)


After having it a while, put a full system on it like I have.
They are big bucks direct, but I can show you where to get one for $365.

The stock titanium header is a nice buzz word for sales... but it cracks. So for a few more dollars than a slip on you can avoid that replacement cost down the road... cause you'll have to buy another stocker to keep using your slip on... So for a few dollars more you avoid that and gain the performance of a full exhaust.

Certainly don't take your KFX to that dealer's shop. They are clueless. The KFX does not have any ability to self-adjust for mods. It has no o2 sensor, or mass air sensor. In stock form all it can do is try to compensate for air temp (inlet air temp sensor) and altitude (inlet air pressure sensor).

Most people have been able to add an exhaust system without any problems though. But not because the KFX can adjust... but because the stock mapping is RICH in most cases.

So an exhaust without a programmer just brings the air/fuel ratio closer to spot on.

I would not buy a programmer for a while until you see how good everything is... which means you won't be able to change intakes... but you won't need the programmer until then anyways.
 
#24 ·
Once again....your dealer is full of crap. the EFI on these quads do NOT self adjust. To self adjust there would need to be a wide band 02 sensor and the EFI would need to have the capability to compensate, which it does not. Just to do an exhaust you would not need a programmer. The stock EFI is set a little on the rich side so you would be ok, but you would see little to no gain from doing a slip-on or a full pipe only. If you did an aftermarket intake you would need a programmer since the new intake would flow so much more air into the engine you would be running lean. The intake is where you will find a huge gain in performance. With an intake, programmer, and a pipe (the "Big 3") you will get about as much performance from the quad as you can with just bolt on parts. I dunno why you keep talking to the dealer. Obviously he doesn't know jack.
 
#25 ·
I have not gone back to that dealer ever, the ones I am talking to are different deales because the first one didnt seem to no anything. There are a bunch of dealers around me but the one that didn't seem to know anything is far away from me. I only talked to him once and he was the one that said all that stuff about the 450s. There were two DIFFERENT dealers that said you would be fine with a pipe on it. My mistake because they said you would be fine with just a pipe on it. I thought they said it adjusted, so if you add more than a pipe then you would need a programmer.
 
#26 ·
Let me correct myself. The EFI will make small adjustments for temp, and altitude as Duster said
 
#28 ·
If you still have it I can help you figure out what is really wrong with it.

Despite all the hype and arguing and so forth, if you run all of the 450's back to back on the same dyno, they are all within 2 hp of each other stock. And if you run the same units on the same dyno the next day, again they will all run within 2 hp of each other, but they may swap up on bragging order. Same goes if you look at a dyno of a different set of units.

Point being they are all very close when running correctly... and the dynos are really not accurate enough down to that degree to give a definite answer which one has more power.


Out in the real world riding with buddies and such though, it is really hard to find an LTR that doesn't at least have the intake & exhaust opened and a cherry bomb installed... cause the investment is what... a few minutes and $40 for a big gain over stock... like 7hp or something...

That's really hard to compete with on the KFX with it's short stock gearing and all.
You have to do a sprocket gearing change and some mods also to keep up with an LTR.
 
#29 ·
It's either I buy used or don't get anything at all, so I will take my chances. I wont be buying an ltr because it is so wide and doesn't have reverse. I know there are kits to make it narrower but I dont want to go through all the trouble. I want to bring it to a mechanic so they can tell me if there is any thing wrong with it.
 
#30 ·
Right... I love the LTR and if they made an XC version with reverse I'd be on one.

Before new quad prices started taking a nose dive, I actually committed to buy a new LTR. At the time the Suzuki dealer with a bunch of stock folded... and their dealership + inventory was transferred down the street.

I had a chance to buy one new for $4799, which AT THE TIME was a steal. So I was willing to give up the reverse for that... and spend some of the savings narrowing it. Filled out the paperwork close to 5pm... then had to plan to return at lunch the next day to finalize everything... which I did.

Long story short, the sales MGR sold it out from under me and his sales person about an hour prior. A year or so later a guy bought a place for sale 4 houses down from me, and we were talking and it turns out he's the one who ended up with my LTR. Small world.

It's an awesome machine... sick on logging roads, fire roads, etc... But he won't go with me back in the woods anymore. He has a hard time keeping up with the width, and got tired of getting hung up and having to get off and push it back.

49" is a nice width, but it gets really wide back in the tight woods.
It's great otherwise.
 
#32 ·
Yep... that's how I perceive it also.

But I have been around a long time, and maybe you have too. It's almost an updated aluminum copy of the old Roll Lobo 250R chassis.... the subframe angle is just steeper.
 
#34 ·
None of them aluminum sprockets or supposed to last for ever steel sprockets or such nonsense.

Standard Renthal would be fine.

Trying to shave an ounce or make it last forever just isn't wise for this application.


Tell the guy you heard the extended warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on, and offer him $3,000 or less... LOL...